by Sachacan you please break this point into little arguments for our consumption and digestion? Too much to read after a Thanksgiving feast... lol
I would if I could, but I can't. It's to be taken as a whole.
by lewdisti choose to not act like an asswipe and claim i know things that are unknown. nor do i have any interest in seriously pursuing physics, maths, etc. so, it's not something i ever think about. can't imagine a more pointless pass time.
its only pointless if u cant make money out of it
plenty of people make bold claims about the unknown and a legion of fools rush to shower them with money
As Giordano Bruno said in talking about the Universe "It's like falling in love." This truth is one of the finest definitions I've seen, besides that of Carl Sagan. The question is: What constitutes Pantheism? Is it that of the LaVeyan Satanists? I think Pantheism, the term, is simply a conjured up social term used to describe the perspectives of people.
The universe is divine, it's mysterious and complex structure is unfathomable, beyond anything the human imagination can think of. To not feel a sudden tepid breeze of the heart when acknowledging the fact our Atoms came from the cores of Stars is to be a nihilist or a philistine. We can all agree on one thing: God 100% does not exist. Whatever term a person goes by, Pantheist, Pagan, Atheist, they can all hold very passionate views regarding the universe as divine, overcome by humility, as one would in the religion of Islam in the presence of God. But those that tend to be ignorant of this magnificent and supreme perspective are usually Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. They are also amongst the most reactionary.
Now into Marxism. Of course religion is compatible with Marxism In that the freedom to practice a religion exists, Christian Communism would be a good example, but overall the official Marxist stance is atheism. However, the methodology by which to achieve this state of ubiquitous atheism is very different from the common Atheist aggravated by the perpetual stupidity that surrounds him/her.
I highly recommend reading Lenin's 'Religion' which can be found in PDF form by a simple google search, he underlines the methods by which to achieve and the official communist stance.
From the writings of Lenin the following four principles stand out as the most important:
(1) Atheism is an integral part of Marxism. Consequently a class conscious Marxist party must carry on propaganda in favour of atheism.
(2) The demand for the complete separation of the church and the state, and the church and the school, must be made.
(3) The winning over of the proletariat is accomplished, principally by dealing with their everyday economic and political interests; consequently the propaganda in favour of atheism must grow out of, and be carefully related to, the defence of these interests.
(4) The final emancipation of the toiling masses from religion will occur only after the proletarian revolution, only in a Communist society. This, however, is not a reason for postponing the propaganda for atheism. Rather does it emphasise its urgency in subordination to the general needs of the workers’ class struggle.
Lenin’s attitude towards religion can be seen most clearly in the programme of the Communist Party of Russia drawn up in March, 1919. Under the heading of “General Political Questions,†section 13, we read:
With regard to religion, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union does not confine itself to the already decreed separation of the church and the state, and of the school and the church, ie, measures advocated in the programmes of bourgeois democracy, which the latter has nowhere consistently carried out to the end owing to the diverse and actual ties which bind capital with religious propaganda.
The Communist Party of the Soviet Union is guided by the conviction that only the conscious and deliberate planning of all the social and economic activities of the masses will cause religious prejudices to die out. The Party strives for the complete dissolution of the ties between the exploiting classes and the organisation of religious propaganda, facilitates the real emancipation of the working masses from religious prejudices and organises the widest possible scientific, educational and anti-religious propaganda. At the same time it is necessary carefully to avoid giving such offence to the religious sentiments of believers, as it only leads to the strengthening of religious fanaticism.
Take note of "At the same time it is necessary carefully to avoid giving such offence to the religious sentiments of believers, as only leads to the strengthening of religious fanaticism."
Nikolai Bukharin and Evgenii Preobrazhensky in their influential book the ABC of Communism, they wrote:
"Communism is incompatible with religious faith."
And further go on to say: " But the campaign against the backwardness of the masses in this matter of religion, must be conducted with patience and considerateness, as well as with energy and perseverance. The credulous crowd is extremely sensitive to anything which hurts its feelings. To thrust atheism upon the masses, and in conjunction therewith to interfere forcibly with religious practices and to make mock of the objects of popular reverence, would not assist but would hinder the campaign against religion. If the church were to be persecuted, it would win sympathy among the masses, for persecution would remind them of the almost forgotten days when there was an association between religion and the defence of national freedom; it would strengthen the antisemitic movement; and in general it would mobilize all the vestiges of an ideology which is already beginning to die out."
Similarly, the programme of the Communist International, adopted at the Sixth World Congress in 1928, states:
One of the most important tasks of the cultural revolution affecting the wide masses is the task of systematically and unswervingly combating religion – the opium of the people. The proletarian government must withdraw all state support from the church, which is the agency of the former ruling class; it must prevent all church interference in state-organised educational affairs, and ruthlessly suppress the counter-revolutionary activity of the ecclesiastical organisations. At the same time, the proletarian state, while granting liberty of worship and abolishing the privileged position of the formerly dominant religion, carries on anti-religious propaganda with all the means at its command and reconstructs the whole of its educational work on the basis of scientific materialism.
The official stance is, as Marx famously said, "Religion is the opium of the masses."
Lenin developed this in 'Religion': Religion is one of the forms of spiritual oppression which everywhere weighs down heavily upon the masses of the people, over burdened by their perpetual work for others, by want and isolation. Impotence of the exploited classes in their struggle against the exploiters just as inevitably gives rise to the belief in a better life after death as impotence of the savage in his battle with nature gives rise to belief in gods, devils, miracles, and the like.
Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth, thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven. Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze, in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man.
But a slave who has become conscious of his slavery and has risen to struggle for his emancipation has already half ceased to be a slave. The modern class-conscious worker, reared by large scale factory industry and enlightened by urban life, contemptuously casts aside religious prejudices, leaves heaven to the priests and bourgeois bigots, and tries to win a better life for himself here on earth. The proletariat of today takes the side of socialism, which enlists science in the battle against the fog of religion, and frees the workers from their belief in life after death by welding them together to fight in the present for a better life on earth.
“Religion must be declared a private affair.†In these words socialists usually express their attitude towards religion. But the meaning of these words should be accurately defined to prevent any misunderstanding. We demand that religion be held a private affair so far as the state is concerned. But by no means can we consider religion a private affair so far as our Party is concerned.
Religion must be of no concern to the state, and religious societies must have no connection with governmental authority. Everyone must be absolutely free to profess any religion he pleases, or no religion whatever, ie, to be an atheist, which every socialist is, as a rule. Discrimination among citizens on account of their religious convictions is wholly intolerable
Lenin's mention of the fog of religion, I would have said the Caliginous fog of religion, but never mind.
He continues to talk about cutting off all ties between state and religion.
So that is my view pertaining to religion and how I think we should go about destroying it.
by JackC 4The truth is, you cannot argue with an atheist but the atheist is right. I have truth on my side, my arguments are consistent with logic, science and overall reality.
The truth is, you cannot argue with any other other religions person about their religion. They have facts on their side, the fact nothing is proven to be the cause of our universe. If you believe something that is unproven, then how are you different than a christian?
We also must make sure we don't walk into the God of the gaps fallacy. Just because we don't know something doesn't automatically mean god did it.
The truth is, you cannot argue with an atheist but the atheist is right. I have truth on my side, my arguments are consistent with logic, science and overall reality.
by JackC 4Lewdist, that just makes you a moron. We know that god doesn't exist, the reason you don't is because of what you said: you've never studied physics.
how does figuring out one way the universe could have been made disprove or prove how the universe was actually started?
