I'm a hypocrite myself. I'm not denying that, but at no stage did I ever claim that being caught is part of what makes it appealing to me. It's the risk of capture that makes it appealing, not actually getting caught.
Eye for an eye, a punishment befitting the crime, is what I generally believe. I'm pro-death penalty in the matter of "they knew the risks, and if not, they ought to have". If they don't get caught, then they succeeded, they earned it.
It's a shame that punishment and crime are rarely proportional to each other.
Life to me isn't sacred or anything special that deserves that much focus and attention. After enough time, no one will mourn for their passing, because they aren't important. If it were my own life being weighed, naturally, I'd dislike being the target of it and I'd try to worm my way out of it in ways where I end up safer, just like most others, but that's out of selfishness, not belief.
Yes, I completely agree. Society creates criminals as much as it punishes them; it is blind to its flaws. Punishment isn't about 'right' or 'wrong', it's about power and keeping the status quo. That is the purpose punishment serves - not to impart moral justice but to keep the power balance in favour of the powerful.
by PathophileYes, I completely agree. Society creates criminals as much as it punishes them; it is blind to its flaws. Punishment isn't about 'right' or 'wrong', it's about power and keeping the status quo. That is the purpose punishment serves - not to impart moral justice but to keep the power balance in favour of the powerful.
Pat. What is your definition of a criminal ?
Explain why you believe society creates criminals ?
Explain why punishment to you is not about 'right' or 'wrong'
1. Criminal: one who breaks the law. In fact, I probably shouldn't have referred to criminals at all; I should have just said 'someone who threatens the status quo'.
2. It's the nature of the hierarchy - putting people down makes them want to rise up; it's inevitable. For example, wealth is the measure of power. People steal because they want to better themselves.
3. Punishment just serves to keep society how it is. If it was about 'right' and 'wrong', there would be no legislature. It's about property and power. Most people take justice to mean retribution; people could easily exact their own revenge but the system does it for them (to keep the peace).
by PathophilePeople steal because they want to better themselves.
No, they don't. People steal for numerous reasons that have nothing to do with that:
- greed (wanting more than they even need)
- to pay for a drug habit
- survival
- to see if they can get away with it
- purely for the rush
- as part of an initiation into a gang
- kleptomania
by Pathophile1. Criminal: one who breaks the law. In fact, I probably shouldn't have referred to criminals at all; I should have just said 'someone who threatens the status quo'.
2. It's the nature of the hierarchy - putting people down makes them want to rise up; it's inevitable. For example, wealth is the measure of power. People steal because they want to better themselves.
3. Punishment just serves to keep society how it is. If it was about 'right' and 'wrong', there would be no legislature. It's about property and power. Most people take justice to mean retribution; people could easily exact their own revenge but the system does it for them (to keep the peace).
Ok I see what you are talking about. But lets break it down into its simplist form.
You have a man and a woman who grew up on a island with no influence from civilization.
One day the man and woman are sitting around eating a fish they had caught that day, and the woman eats
the last piece of fish. Because of this the man becomes enraged, and hits her over the head with a rock.
Do you think what he did was right or wrong ? In his eyes he was right for doing so.
In her eyes he was wrong. In a world not ruled by laws, how do you distinguish between 'right' or 'wrong'
Thats why to me you have to have some form of laws and punishment, for without it who is to say I cant kill a
man for sneezing on me.
Interesting idea. So basically you're saying law is an arbitrary morality?
I'm not sure about the two people on the island analogy. I think that his action was amoral; devoid of morality. It was tit for tat. I don't think punishment is relevant in that situation as then he becomes the only person on the island; there isn't a hierarchy to uphold. If the incident happened within a large society, then clearly something would 'need' to be done as he would be a threat to others.
The story could be changed to 4 people on the island, 2 males 2 females. and the outcome would stay the same. I was just saying. Mankind was born with emotions, happy, neutral, defensive, protective. ect. In the 4 people scenaro, given they were brought up in a sense wild. If the 2 men were both interested in the same woman. There would be emotions involoved that they were born with. Eventualy the two men would fight to claim there prize.
I believe people can become in a sense to educated to the point that they overlook the obvious. I see it every day. I had a tech come in to troubleshoot a welder I was haveing problems with. he brought a trainee with him to observe. i was watching them work on it and the tech could not find the problem. The trainee asked him if the motherboard could possibly be bad.
The tech realized the trainee was correct. and fixed the problem. Sometimes even the smartest of people need to step back and look at the problem in its simplist form