A video of children being taught antisemitic ideas would be evidence that that particular program or environment is teaching antisemitism. It doesn't establish that this is what the entire Gaza Strip believes.
So because of that you're dismissing their hate curriculums as a non issue.
I see.
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What I say remains. They brainwash children to hate Jews.
A video of children being taught antisemitic ideas would be evidence that that particular program or environment is teaching antisemitism. It doesn't establish that this is what the entire Gaza Strip believes.
So because of that you're dismissing their hate curriculums as a non issue.
I see. What I say remains. They brainwash children to hate Jews.
No, that's not what I said. You're doing the same thing again by replacing my argument with a position I didn't make. I explicitly said that if children are being taught to hate Jews, that should be condemned. That's not dismissing it.
What I'm rejecting is your leap from "there are programs that teach antisemitism" to "Palestinians are brainwashed to hate Jews" and then from that to treating Palestinians generally as responsible for Hamas. Those are different claims requiring different evidence.
A curriculum can be genuinely hateful and still not represent every person exposed to it. The same principle applies to the footage I mentioned of Israelis protesting against the prosecution of soldiers accused of abusing Palestinian detainees. I wouldn't conclude that all Israelis support abuse because of that footage. You shouldn't conclude that all Palestinians are programmed to hate Jews because of footage from a particular educational program.
And if your claim is simply "some Palestinian organizations have taught children antisemitic ideas," then say that. I won't dispute a claim that specific evidence actually establishes. But "they brainwash children to hate Jews" is being used by you as a sweeping characterization of an entire population. That's the part I'm rejecting.
You're trying to turn my refusal to generalize from selective evidence into a defense of the thing shown in the evidence. Those aren't remotely the same position.
A video of children being taught antisemitic ideas would be evidence that that particular program or environment is teaching antisemitism. It doesn't establish that this is what the entire Gaza Strip believes.
So because of that you're dismissing their hate curriculums as a non issue.
I see. What I say remains. They brainwash children to hate Jews.
No, that's not what I said. You're doing the same thing again by replacing my argument with a position I didn't make. I explicitly said that if children are being taught to hate Jews, that should be condemned. That's not dismissing it.
See the underlined section ^
Who said I was trying to establish that all of them hate on Jews ?
What I'm saying is they teach children from a young age to hate Jews.
What I'm rejecting is your leap from "there are programs that teach antisemitism" to "Palestinians are brainwashed to hate Jews" and then from that to treating Palestinians generally as responsible for Hamas. Those are different claims requiring different evidence.
Treating Palestinians generally responsible for Hamas.
You ought to not allow your feeling to lead you astray. Hamas is an organization that basically took over Gaza after a civil war. Gaza was taken.
You're now narrowing your claim after the fact. The problem wasn't merely whether a particular curriculum exists. You introduced that footage as part of a broader argument portraying Gaza and Palestinians through Hamas's ideology, while presenting Israel as the obvious alternative. That's the context in which the evidence matters.
I'm not dismissing antisemitic indoctrination. I'm rejecting your selective use of it. You take an extreme example from Gaza and use it to characterize the Palestinian side, while taking Israel's comparatively better LGBT protections and presenting them as though they settle the moral comparison. That's an extremely selective standard. You don't apply the same scrutiny to Israel's treatment of Palestinians, including LGBT Palestinians affected by the war, and you reduce Israel's LGBT record to "they won't kill you for being gay" while ignoring the actual limitations and controversies surrounding its policies.
The LGBT comparison is especially transparent because you're using it as a Trojan horse for your broader Israel-versus-Palestine binary. I oppose anti-LGBT treatment in Palestinian society and Hamas just as I oppose it anywhere else. But Israel having stronger domestic LGBT protections doesn't make its treatment of Palestinians irrelevant, and it doesn't make Israel the "good side." A country can have stronger LGBT protections than its regional neighbors while still committing serious abuses against another population. Those facts aren't mutually exclusive.
And Hamas taking control of Gaza doesn't solve your collective-responsibility argument. Hamas is an organization that gained political control through conflict with Fatah. Gaza is still a civilian population containing people with different political beliefs and different relationships to Hamas. Saying "Hamas took Gaza" doesn't turn every Gazan into a Hamas member or make every Palestinian responsible for Hamas.
There's also some irony in you presenting yourself as uniquely concerned about antisemitism when you've previously made generalized claims about Jews, such as the idea that kosher food is inherently healthier and the claim that Jews preferentially trade with one another and patronize Jewish-owned businesses in order to enrich themselves. Those ideas resemble familiar antisemitic stereotypes about Jews operating as a coordinated, self-enriching group. I don't need to claim that you consciously hate Jews to point out the problem with that reasoning.
If I took footage of a Palestinian group teaching antisemitism and used it to characterize Palestinians generally, that would be a collective generalization. The same standard applies when discussing Jews. You can't condemn collective generalizations about one group while making or repeating them about another.
And the same problem applies to your education argument. You keep treating the most favorable characteristics you associate with Israel as evidence that Israelis or Jews are inherently "better people." Education isn't a measure of ethnic or moral superiority. Good education means scientific literacy, critical thinking, and the ability to revise beliefs when evidence contradicts you. Someone can have access to excellent education and still believe political, religious, or conspiratorial nonsense. Your own denial of established climate science demonstrates why education and rationality aren't interchangeable.
Ultimately, you're selecting the worst examples from the Palestinian side and the most favorable characteristics from the Israeli side, then presenting the resulting contrast as though you've demonstrated an objective moral hierarchy. Hamas's antisemitism doesn't make Palestinians Hamas. Israel's LGBT protections don't erase its treatment of Palestinians. And neither side's worst examples should be projected onto an entire population. That's the black-and-white framing I've been criticizing from the beginning.
You're now narrowing your claim after the fact. The problem wasn't merely whether a particular curriculum exists. You introduced that footage as part of a broader argument portraying Gaza and Palestinians through Hamas's ideology, while presenting Israel as the obvious alternative. That's the context in which the evidence matters.
I simply said they teach children from young to hate Jews. And that is the truth.
You wish I made it all broad, but really you're scrounging around through the cracks looking for something to attack. It's quite entertaining watching you work.
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"According to comprehensive polling by organizations like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), approximately 93% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza hold strongly negative or anti-Semitic views."
oo ah.
You're now narrowing your claim after the fact. The problem wasn't merely whether a particular curriculum exists. You introduced that footage as part of a broader argument portraying Gaza and Palestinians through Hamas's ideology, while presenting Israel as the obvious alternative. That's the context in which the evidence matters.
I simply said they teach children from young to hate Jews. And that is the truth.
You wish I made it all broad, but really you're scrounging around through the cracks looking for something to attack. It's quite entertaining watching you work.
"According to comprehensive polling by organizations like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), approximately 93% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza hold strongly negative or anti-Semitic views."
oo ah.
You're changing the argument again. I never said the existence of antisemitic teaching is imaginary. I said that a selective kindergarten video doesn't establish the broader explanation you were using it for. Now you're responding with a statistic about antisemitic attitudes as though that proves the existence of a specific "brainwashing" curriculum. It doesn't.
The 93% figure you're citing is also being presented misleadingly. It comes from the ADL's older Global 100 methodology, where respondents were classified as having elevated antisemitic attitudes if they endorsed at least 6 of 11 negative stereotypes about Jews. That's evidence of widespread antisemitic attitudes in that population, which is obviously worth taking seriously. It isn't evidence that 93% of Palestinians were taught to hate Jews as children, nor does it establish that Hamas or a particular curriculum caused those attitudes.
And even if antisemitism is genuinely widespread among Palestinians, that still doesn't make Palestinians synonymous with Hamas or make Israeli conduct toward Palestinian civilians irrelevant. This is exactly why I keep separating the population from the organization. You're treating the existence of a serious problem within a population as though it settles the entire political and moral question.
I'm also not "scrounging around for something to attack." I'm pointing out that you're repeatedly using evidence selectively. You emphasize antisemitism among Palestinians, Hamas's ideology, and LGBT issues in Palestinian society, while presenting Israel's LGBT record in its most favorable terms and largely ignoring Israeli conduct toward Palestinians. That produces a predetermined conclusion rather than a balanced comparison.
If your actual claim is simply "antisemitism is widespread among Palestinians and some Palestinian institutions have taught it to children," then make that claim and provide evidence for it. I can acknowledge a documented problem without accepting the much larger conclusion you're trying to attach to it.
You're now narrowing your claim after the fact. The problem wasn't merely whether a particular curriculum exists. You introduced that footage as part of a broader argument portraying Gaza and Palestinians through Hamas's ideology, while presenting Israel as the obvious alternative. That's the context in which the evidence matters.
I simply said they teach children from young to hate Jews. And that is the truth.
You wish I made it all broad, but really you're scrounging around through the cracks looking for something to attack. It's quite entertaining watching you work.
"According to comprehensive polling by organizations like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), approximately 93% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza hold strongly negative or anti-Semitic views."
oo ah.
You're changing the argument again. I never said the existence of antisemitic teaching is imaginary. I said that a selective kindergarten video doesn't establish the broader explanation you were using it for. Now you're responding with a statistic about antisemitic attitudes as though that proves the existence of a specific "brainwashing" curriculum. It doesn't.
This isn't an argument. You're getting slaughtered.
There's plenty of footage like that. Interviews and coverage. It's not a secret.
It's brainwashing.
Calling it "brainwashing" doesn't make the inference any stronger. If there are numerous documented examples of children being taught antisemitic ideas, then those examples can establish that antisemitic indoctrination occurs. Fine. But you still haven't established how widespread it is, who is responsible for it, how consistently children are exposed to it, or how much of Palestinian antisemitism it explains.
And the 93% statistic doesn't solve that problem. A survey measuring antisemitic attitudes is evidence about attitudes. It isn't evidence that 93% of Palestinians were subjected to a particular curriculum or that their attitudes were caused by childhood indoctrination. You're taking evidence for one proposition and treating it as proof of another.
More importantly, none of this establishes the conclusion you originally wanted from it. Palestinians having widespread antisemitic attitudes would be a serious problem. It still wouldn't make Palestinians synonymous with Hamas, make Palestinian civilians collectively responsible for Hamas, or turn Israel into the automatic "good side." Those are separate propositions.
You're also ignoring the obvious possibility that hatred can have multiple causes. A population subjected to generations of conflict, displacement, occupation, violence and destruction can develop irrational hatred of the people they associate with that violence. That doesn't make the hatred justified, but it means you can't simply observe hatred and declare its cause to be "brainwashing."
So if your claim is "antisemitic indoctrination exists among some Palestinian institutions and is a serious problem," there's nothing controversial about condemning it. If your claim is "therefore Palestinians are fundamentally hostile to Jews, Hamas represents Gaza, and Israel is the obvious alternative," you haven't demonstrated that. You're just adding increasingly broad conclusions to narrower pieces of evidence.
A four-year-old being taught to talk about shooting Jews is disturbing. Nobody needs to minimize that. But you're still treating "I saw a disturbing example" and "I have established the cause and extent of this phenomenon" as the same thing.
If you want to call that particular program indoctrination, that's reasonable if the evidence shows the children were deliberately being taught those ideas. But the 93% figure doesn't establish that the 93% were "brainwashed." It measures antisemitic attitudes according to a particular survey methodology. It doesn't tell you what caused those attitudes, whether they were acquired in childhood, or what percentage came from schools, family, media, religious institutions, war, or other factors.
And "all things are brainwashing" actually makes your argument weaker, not stronger. If you're using "brainwashing" to mean any powerful influence on someone's beliefs, then the term doesn't distinguish deliberate indoctrination from ordinary socialization, propaganda, family influence, political rhetoric, or experiences of violence. You need to establish the specific mechanism rather than treating the label itself as an explanation.
The important point is that I don't need to deny antisemitic indoctrination to reject your broader conclusion. It can be real, serious, and worth condemning while still not making Gaza synonymous with Hamas or Palestinians synonymous with antisemitism. That's the distinction you've repeatedly tried to erase.
