Sociopath Community

This has gotten loopy.

No offence but I don't think you're able to keep up and understand. The issue is your OCD.

I did enjoy this conversation. The most fun I've had on here in a long time.

"Calling that doesn't.....I don't think....saying that doesn't...."

Yes Goon, not for you. What you should do is paste the whole story into ChatGPT and ask it to make sense of it all for you.

I have Sol access. The best GPT.  Would you like me to do it for you ?

Claudel Fable perhapse ?

Super Grok ?

Would you like me to get this done for you so you can make sense of it all ? Or does it scare you that I'll just uncover you more ?

Let me know.

I think this is where the discussion has actually run out of substance. Instead of addressing the distinctions I'm making, you're now saying I have OCD, telling me I can't understand the story, and suggesting another AI could somehow uncover what I'm "really" missing.

I've understood the story. I've also understood your explanation of it. The fact that I reject your conclusions doesn't mean I don't understand the premises.

You've actually made your position clearer throughout the discussion: you believe punishment is a necessary deterrent, that people sometimes need to be taught through suffering, that Snake deliberately punished Raiden and "put him in his place," and that the consequences Raiden received were something he "earned." That's precisely the punitive worldview I was criticizing from the beginning.

You can explain the story to me ten more times and I can still disagree with that worldview. More context doesn't logically turn "this happened to Raiden" into "therefore Raiden deserved it," nor does it turn Snake deliberately engineering the situation and manipulating the evidence into some automatic form of justice.

So I don't need ChatGPT, Claude, Grok, or another interpretation of the story to tell me what I think about it. I've understood your argument. I just don't find the underlying moral framework convincing, and repeating the plot details isn't going to change that.

Your problem is taking issue with punishment. But that's what made the story good for anyone who got a kick out of it.

Yes Snake fucked over Raiden big time. 

Snake never just randomly screwed Raiden. If he did the story wouldn't entertain. Raiden was being a dick. Dog owner teaching dogs to attack others are unpopular plus Raiden was cynical about it. Even though Snake made Chewy suffer before killing unaliving her, it's still his show.

It's not about being fair. Justice system is blind. If Raiden won at the hearing that would've been bland and unworthy of a show designed to shock and bewilder.

That's not actually my criticism. I'm not objecting to punishment existing in a story, nor am I saying Raiden should have won the hearing.

I thought the writing was poor, and the excessive punishment made it come across as a resentful attack on Raiden rather than something genuinely funny or compelling. Those are different criticisms.

You keep explaining why Snake's actions were justified within the story, but that's not what determines whether I find the story well written. A story can establish that a character is an asshole, have them receive consequences, and still be badly written if the characterization is exaggerated, the moralizing is heavy-handed, and the punishment feels like authorial wish fulfillment.

And saying "that's what made the story good for anyone who got a kick out of it" doesn't really answer that. Obviously someone who enjoys seeing Raiden get screwed over is going to enjoy that aspect. I'm saying I don't get the intended humor because the whole thing reads to me like someone taking personal satisfaction in humiliating a character they dislike.

"Justice is blind" doesn't really fit either. You explicitly describe Snake as deliberately setting Raiden up, manipulating the evidence, and knowing he could get away with killing Chewy. That's not blind justice. That's a character deliberately engineering an outcome and then benefiting from it.

So yes, Snake fucked Raiden over. I understand that. That's actually part of why I thought the story was poor. The escalation didn't make it funnier to me. It made the resentment behind the writing more obvious.

And there's some context here that makes your characterization of Raiden in this story feel even stranger to me. Not long ago you were making inaccurate or at least very strange claims about MGS2, including the idea that Raiden basically moves just like Snake, as though he's just a copy or reskin.

That's particularly odd because Raiden being treated as a "copy" is actually part of the point of MGS2. The game deliberately sets him up as a replacement for Snake and then spends much of the story showing why that comparison doesn't really work. His different personality, inexperience, emotional reactions, and relationship to the player's expectations are all part of the character.

So when I then see Raiden turned into an exaggerated, incompetent, emotionally deficient punching bag in this story, it naturally stands out to me, especially when the characterization is being justified with the same sort of exaggerated interpretation of MGS2 that I was already criticizing.

And again, I'm not saying Raiden can't be made fun of. He already is, and Metal Gear has done it far more effectively. The difference is that the comedy can come from Raiden's awkwardness, inexperience, or contrast with Snake without turning into an elaborate moral crusade about how Raiden is defective and needs to be punished.

That's why I don't find this story funny. It isn't the fact that Raiden gets screwed over. It's the combination of exaggerated characterization, the strange MGS2 claims behind it, and the constant moral justification for humiliating him. It reads more like resentment toward the character than good comedy.

Your criticism entertained me the most. You're so conflicted with multiple elements of the presentation and complained about more than this being a jab at the guy you use as your avatar.

If I turned this into a short movie I'd overlay your criticism  with a high pitched shaky voice soft enough to be white noise in the background. Actions speak louder than words so your critique would be more offset,   

I have 2 good reasons to dislike Raiden as a character. We talked about that the other day. It's not particularly hate, it's more disappointment. 

Fan Fiction

Raiden gets out of jail finally with his Fortis Fortuna Adavait tattoo across his knuckles. He's infuriated that his minimum wages have been getting directly siphoned to Snake who "righteously" killed his Chihuahua. As Chihuahuas evolved from cave dwelling Chupacabras in Aztec Cultures, Raiden's new eugenics program for Chihuahuas finally reaches a pinnacle to where he no longer fears facing Snake with his army of bionic berzerker Chihuahueños. These Chihuahuas are trained even more intricately and thoroughly utilizing Nuremburg tactics.

Snake of course forsees all of this and is well prepared in advance against Raiden's untermenschen, annoying, cat-like behaviour and orchestrates a precaution, a vertiginous prevention for nullifying the ability of the Chihuahueños. Snake is thrilled to discover that Raiden is out of jail and invites him over to discuss thoughts and ideas, various tangents. (Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, he assumes wise.) Suddenly Snakes multi-armed structure he adopts Wolverin'es abilities, growing limbs from every feasible personal skin-space to bait the Chihuahuas into leaving bite marks and wins the court case again leaving Raiden permanantly sentenced to work-binding energy to the utile object inhibiting its tendency to dissipation, preventing its slippage towards death conspiring with prison cctv footage.

Snake eventually becomes depressed and misses Raiden, writing several letters to him in prison, as he updates him on the well-being of the Chihuahueños he has taken into his care out of his notions for honor and integrity; as there was no reason to kill the Chihuahuas this time to deal with his enemy, he came to view them as his own family and care for them well after Raiden's total loss of sanity again even worse in prison again.