Message Turncoat in a DM to get moderator attention

Users Online(? lurkers):
6 / 16 posts
Posts: 3631
0 votes RE: The Problems with Virtue Ethics

I do understand the opposition. A fine example is...

Beat your fucking kids. 

I've been tackled in here for saying that by people who don't understand the difference between discipline and abuse. But I know and understand it well cause I was beat as a child as a form as discipline, and I'm actually grateful for it. Many people in my culture are, and basically every single culture, including your own has employed this method. 

You look at someone who was beaten for no reason, and they grow up resenting their parents. Maybe they were beaten far beyond the requirement. That's abuse.

Even in the heat of the moment a child knows intuitively if a beating is justified. There's a difference between making mistakes, and choosing to do wrong. 

If a parents fails to discipline a bad child, the world will fuck them up when their older with a sense of entitled.

In my culture along with many others, we grow up laughing about it, and it really shows in a person when their parents failed them.   

 

 

Posts: 7
0 votes RE: The Problems with Virtue Ethics
Qualia said: 
 It is often said that laughter is universal, but so is crime. The pagans thought it was common sense to put heads on pikes and burn people in structures
 

 Various other cultures did that too back in the day. It did serve a purpose, and perhaps it was very effective.

Today stuff like that is a bit of an eyesore and not something people wish to see. 

 What purpose did burning people in large wooden structures to appease the nature god really serve? It likely prevented them from learning practical methods of agriculture.

Posts: 7
0 votes RE: The Problems with Virtue Ethics

I do understand the opposition, a fine example is...

Beat your fucking kids. 


I've been tackled in here for saying that by people who don't understand the difference between discipline and abuse. But I know and understand it well cause I was beat as a child as a form as discipline, and I'm actually grateful for it. Many people in my culture are, and basically every single culture, including your own has employed this method.

Even in the heat of the moment a child knows intuitively if a beating is justified. There's a difference between making mistakes, and choosing to do wrong. 

If a parents fails to discipline a bad child, the world will fuck them up when their older with a sense of entitled.

Physical punishment consistently predicts increases in behavioural problems in children over time, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34197808/ increases the risk for child protective service involvement and is associated with a more fragmented familial relationship. These negative associations apply broadly accross different demographics and cultures. There is a correlation between religious participation and corporal punishment of children/abuse. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5758423/ 

In a birth‐cohort study of children through age 5, frequent maternal spanking at age 3 was associated with externalizing behaviour (e.g., aggression) and lower receptive vocabulary at age 5. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24839402/

A recent meta-analysis focusing on low- and middle-income countries (LMICs) found that physical punishment was significantly associated with negative outcomes for 16 of 19 outcomes studied (including mental health, academic outcomes, behavior) and no positive outcomes were identified. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/05/250505121754.htm


Major professional bodies (e.g., the American Academy of Pediatrics) note that while physical punishment may yield short‐term compliance, long‐term it is not effective and is associated with worse outcomes and lower academic performance. https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/152/3/e2023063284/193708/Corporal-Punishment-in-Schools

A study across 8 countries found that frequency of corporal punishment was linked with externalizing behaviours, and that neither severity nor moralization of the punishment moderated the risk (i.e., even when parents thought punishment was “fair” or “mild”, the risk remained). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28729751/

 

There are many more studies showing correlations between corporal punishment of children being linked to negative behavioral outcomes across many demographics.

last edit on 11/5/2025 6:38:28 PM
Posts: 7
0 votes RE: The Problems with Virtue Ethics

Virtue ethics often relies on appeal to authority and circular logic.


Were ancient Athenians correct in viewing slave-owning aristocrats as virtuous, or was it systemic injustice?


It is often taught that to be virtuous requires being like a virtuous person. E.g Be like Gandhi. Let's not even get into his racist campaign against blacks, believing they didn't deserve rights or suggesting suicide as a cure for rape victims.

 
A virtuous person is often considered virtuous because they do virtuous things. This is circular reasoning (a common logical fallacy,) assuming an arguments premise/claim assumes the truth of its conclusion. It assumes already what it claims to prove.

E.g. "Virtue is a state of character concerned with choice… as the prudent man (phronimos) would determine it.” -Aristotle

But: Who is the phronimos?

“The one who exhibits virtue in action.”

This is circular reasoning with no external standard which Greek elites used to justify slavery.


There are many problems with virtue ethics.

Posts: 3631
0 votes RE: The Problems with Virtue Ethics
Qualia said: 
Qualia said: 

 Various other cultures did that too back in the day. It did serve a purpose, and perhaps it was very effective.

Today stuff like that is a bit of an eyesore and not something people wish to see. 

 What purpose did burning people in large wooden structures to appease the nature god really serve? It likely prevented them from learning practical methods of agriculture.

 For some it was an execution method for criminals who did terrible things. Hanging corpses or prompting a head on a pole was a war tactic, which was meant to serve as a deterrent. 

I'm not saying it was a good thing, just effective. I for one wouldn't enter a space with gore at the gate.

 

Qualia said: 

I do understand the opposition, a fine example is...

Beat your fucking kids. 


I've been tackled in here for saying that by people who don't understand the difference between discipline and abuse. But I know and understand it well cause I was beat as a child as a form as discipline, and I'm actually grateful for it. Many people in my culture are, and basically every single culture, including your own has employed this method.

Even in the heat of the moment a child knows intuitively if a beating is justified. There's a difference between making mistakes, and choosing to do wrong. 

If a parents fails to discipline a bad child, the world will fuck them up when their older with a sense of entitled.

Physical punishment consistently predicts increases in behavioural problems in children over time, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34197808/ increases the risk for child protective service involvement and is associated with a more fragmented familial relationship. These negative associations apply broadly accross different demographics and cultures. There is a correlation between religious participation and corporal punishment of children/abuse. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5758423/ 

In a birth‐cohort study of children through age 5, frequent maternal spanking at age 3 was associated with externalizing behaviour (e.g., aggression) and lower receptive vocabulary at age 5. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24839402/

A recent meta-analysis focusing on low- and middle-income countries (LMICs) found that physical punishment was significantly associated with negative outcomes for 16 of 19 outcomes studied (including mental health, academic outcomes, behavior) and no positive outcomes were identified. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/05/250505121754.htm


Major professional bodies (e.g., the American Academy of Pediatrics) note that while physical punishment may yield short‐term compliance, long‐term it is not effective and is associated with worse outcomes and lower academic performance. https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/152/3/e2023063284/193708/Corporal-Punishment-in-Schools

A study across 8 countries found that frequency of corporal punishment was linked with externalizing behaviours, and that neither severity nor moralization of the punishment moderated the risk (i.e., even when parents thought punishment was “fair” or “mild”, the risk remained). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28729751/

 

There are many more studies showing correlations between corporal punishment of children being linked to negative behavioral outcomes across many demographics.

 Those are people who would argue corporal punishment is child abuse, and when you look at the after effects of child abuse both mental and physical, the person grows fucked up. A lot of mental disorders happen from how they were mentally abused as children. 

The world is a secular place with all kinds of traps for the soul. Grooming children to be queer and Universities insisting men can be women is a thing, but in reality a lot of people who transition regret it. It's also a path to extinction. Regardless of one's belief, this is Satanic in nature.

It's easy to assume the boys would crush the ladies at Football, It's even offensive to say that, by today's University standards. 

 
 

Posts: 3631
0 votes RE: The Problems with Virtue Ethics
Qualia said: 

Virtue ethics often relies on appeal to authority and circular logic.

There's a cause and effect to it that really works. One's life doesn't simply improve if they're putting on a shit show, but with virtuous practices the results grant one success and piece of mind. 

 


Were ancient Athenians correct in viewing slave-owning aristocrats as virtuous, or was it systemic injustice?

Sure. 

In the modern day when people think about slaves, they think about how, some, white people treated the negros when they had slavery in the US.

The Bible is cool with slave owning too.

In ancient times, slavery was a choice for some. It isn't free to keep slaves, they have to be looked after too. They need food and water, need to be bathed. Need clothing, and lodging. If these things weren't met it would bring shame to the slave owner.

Also having slaves doesn't mean treating them like sub humans. Many owners and slaves would love one another like family. 

In short. Slavery is along the lines of: You look after me, and I'll look after you. 

It's still a thing today. We call it a job. The only difference is we can fuck off at any time, while the boss can replace his workers. Either way it'll cost the head money. 

In the modern day, having a slave ain't cheap.

If a rich person took a homeless person off the street, and said you can live with me if you do chores, you'll get a room, clean clothes, some time off, 3 meals a day. That's the same thing as slavery. And it's a sweet freakin deal isn't it ? Just don't say the S word, as it reminds people of how some ( not all ) white people treated negroids. 

 


It is often taught that to be virtuous requires being like a virtuous person. E.g Be like Gandhi. Let's not even get into his racist campaign against blacks, believing they didn't deserve rights or suggesting suicide as a cure for rape victims.

Gandhi said blacks in Africa were were savages. He's partially right. Even today look at how they kill white people in Africa.

Gandhi was just an imperfect human being. Christ is King. 


A virtuous person is often considered virtuous because they do virtuous things. This is circular reasoning (a common logical fallacy,) assuming an arguments premise/claim assumes the truth of its conclusion. It assumes already what it claims to prove.

E.g. "Virtue is a state of character concerned with choice… as the prudent man (phronimos) would determine it.” -Aristotle

But: Who is the phronimos?

“The one who exhibits virtue in action.”

This is circular reasoning with no external standard which Greek elites used to justify slavery.


There are many problems with virtue ethics.

 That's simply an opinion.

As far as slavery goes. It's advised to treat slaves with kindness. Like  Dr. King Schultz in the movie Django. He acquired Django and between them they were partners and friends, Django was a "freemen" and had a great deal of respect for one another.  The world is filled with homelessness. They world would be a better place if people took in good people and looked after them in exchange for their services. And there would have to be some benefit to keeping someone fed, sheltered and clean in all fairness.

It happens and it's good for both parties as long as no one is a dick about it. 

6 / 16 posts
This site contains NSFW material. To view and use this site, you must be 18+ years of age.