Message Turncoat in a DM to get moderator attention

Users Online(? lurkers):
10 / 12 posts
0 votes

True Crime


Posts: 9465

Although some may dismiss body language analysis as a psuedoscience all together, I still think it's really interesting to be so well trained in the art of deception you are a walking lie detector. 

 

There's some great professionals out there doing body language analysis or having learned it as a skill and applying it in their careers. I think the concept of forensic analysis over all fascinates me, and I love the game of searching for clues. 

 

The problem with body language analysis is, obviously the element of human bias, cognitive distortion and so forth. We create our own optical illusions sometimes, and some people are like magicians, and are very good at this level of manipulation. 

 

The true crime community on the internet refers to people like myself as 'internet slueths' and, while some use their free time on studying true crime as a hobby and interest, speculating out loud with each other, there's another group that likes to play sherlock, and has actually successfully helped solve a case due to their involvement. There are mixed feelings about internet slueths coming from actual law enforcement, as there have also been occassions where 'civilian' involvement may have worsened the likelihood of a case being properly 'solved.' 

 

I have always been a spectator though, like the way you might watch your favorite sport on TV. I love to watch mysteries get solved, I love to ask questions, to search through detailed evidence and information, and untangle webs of lies, and puzzling mind games. The interrogation footage is like mental chess, for highly skilled trained detectives, and there are some who are exceptionally gifted. Through my love of true crime and mystery I've come to grow an appreciation for the art form, of forensic analysis, forensic psychology, etc. 

 

I really like to deep dive into various areas of crime, fraud, aka 'white collar crime' can sometimes be one of the most sensationalized. 

 

 

@16:54 

 

We all remember Anna Delvey, and Elizabeth Holmes, who were responsible for some of the most publicized fraud crimes in history. So much so, there is an entire Netflix series about Anna- and Anna Delvey merchandise, magazine articles written about her, endorsing her 'court looks' like a celebrity. 

 

Similar to Elizabeth Holmes, with her scam faux rapid blood test, Charlie also decided to come to the table to investors with a scammy product. She started with a new version of FAFSA, which she called Frank. 

 

As a hobbiest, I'm going to talk about my own personal body language analysis, and if any videos come out about it, I'll be happy to compare notes with the "real deals" out there, and find out what I missed. Just going to use info I've gathered so far that's, out there, most likely common knowledge stuff. 

 

Charlie - Body Language Analysis 

1. The number one thing I notice is her chin is held kind of higher than the other guy she's talking with on zoom. His chin mainly goes up when he's just trying to be really clear. Her chin goes down a little too far, which comes off as demeaning, and then goes up really high, indicating a bit of narcissism. 

2. She shakes her head making a 'No' indication while talking about the product, which I'm not sure why but, this can sometimes be an indication of incongruent body language- which is an indicator for perception. Her tone of voice and subject matter don't make sense logically as to why your head would move back and forth, so it's kind of proof of an emotional up tick in the individual speaking- she doesn't usually shake her head no a lot, so it's a very, broad sweeping, noticable deviation from her usual body language. She turns her head to the side as well, after the no shake, looking at 

3. Her eyes get wider when she is mentioning things that will manipulate investors to fork over the money, speaking positively and excitedly about her product 

4. Dupers Delight- this commonly seen smirk to one side is common in people who are lying, and like the way it sounds or like that they are pulling one over on someone. They are essentially pleased with their own words. Notice how th eman speaking to her doesn't have this dupers delight smirk going on, not even at the micro expression level. She has it blatantly, almost all the time. 

5. She over all seems to present the phone call less like a practical analytical conversation, and more of a charming sales pitch 

6. Her voice going up at the end of her sentences insinuates she doesn't believe what she is saying, as well as

7. She leans forward while speaking a lot, which is also an indication of manipulation, begging for you to believe them, convince them. Rather than being extremely secure in what they're saying. 

8. In the news interview she puts her hands up, palms facing outward, this is a really strong body language movement as well, that is commonly seen in people who are wanting to be believed, to earn trust, and appear more innocent- when they are not actually innocent. It's a subtle manipulation, with body langauge to say "hey believe me, I'm super innocent, you can trust me." 

9. She closes her eyes a lot or looks down or to the side a lot, which is known as a blocking behavior. Notice how the man she is in zoom call with remain eye contact very strong, very steady. It depicts an insecurity and a slyness about what she is saying, indicating, wanting to fence herself off because she feels uncertain, vulnerable, and, the darting eyes to the side indicates being creative- thinking 

10. The double blink, and constantly raising eyebrows into a worried or nervous expression indicates she is trying to pass off appearing worried and nervous, as just being really smart- and comes off as a tiny bit arrogant. I think the double blink is also an indiciation that someone is subconcsiouly working very hard on their body language and facial expressions to appear, however it is they're wanting to appear- and thinking very hard about something. Notice in the news interview she doesn't double blink as much, in this interview her goal wasn't to manipulate someone into believeing she was super intelligent, and was more trying to win over the emotions of the woman. She even mentions gender, sort of trying to get women to side with her. She was likely targeting a female investor directly that she was trying to secure, or using her female nature as an edge. Her demeaner in the second interview is different, and it's because the person she is trying to "level" with is female, and not male. She puts on a different show, for different genders- which again indicates high levels of manipulation going on. 

11. In the news interview, before she says something, she occassionally will slow blink. This is another blatant indicator that someone is lying about what they are saying or deceiving you. Most people just blink at a normal rate when speaking. If I say, "no, I didn't go to the store" this is truth. If I say, *slow blinks* *chin down* no, *shakes head no* i didn't go *slow blinks again* to the store *voice up at the end like a question* This is an example of someone who is, a liar, and really bad at it. They hold eye contact with you to make sure you are believing them, after the slow blink, or they may avoid eye contact all together. 

12. Looking up. When the answers are on the ceiling, they're usually deceptive answers. Again, it is less steady, eye contact, and more, jumping around, very scattered and nervous. 

 

13. In the second news live interview, she is still doing the smiling sales pitch. She has. a diablo eyebrow going on, which seems to jump up with excessive excitement, another up tick in expression which indicates internal intense emotion, distress, pleasure (to ones ego), etc.

14. She is trying to again appear well polished, intelligent, her body demeaner is very still and demure rather than confident and relaxed, or confident. She lowers her posture to be level with the man, which is a subconcious manipulation tactic to make the other person feel like they are above you or that you have respect for them. She also speaks in a slightly deeper tone in this interview, which could indicate being more relaxed, or, could indicate she is subconsciously trying to 'level with' or mirror the man, in order to win respect or help him understand her degree of power. In the first news interview, she sounded like a sorority girl. In the second, she sounded like a law student, or news castor. Which just shows, she's very aware who she is speaking to, and puts on a slightly different act for each person, which is again a concerning behavior or an indication of being a manipulative person. Technically speaking in a lower tone is also associated with being more truthful. 

15. At the end of the second live interview, she appears most relaxed, as she is just discussing 'feeder' information, which is just, defining and explaining what the product is. Definitions are the easiest thing to say, because they'res no lies here. Just simply defining what it is, she is more relaxed here than I have ever seen her. This may be closer to her baseline. 

 

@39:44

16. The second zoom interview is difficult for me to watch, because of how much she is looking down. The blocking behavior is off the charts, she doesn't hold decently steady eye contact once. 

 

Posts: 9465
0 votes RE: True Crime

 17. She has a really big smile because she is relishing in the success of the con, and remembering the moment she found out the news about JP Morgan. 

18. When she says number 1, then the long drawn out and um...- she is gloating, pride that is at an excessive level- she may also be trying to refocus on her various talking points, as she looks up and tries to regain focus. Her eyebrows raise as she remembers the things she was planning to talk about, now spitting out several lines she's hoping to get in there, to continue emotionally and mentally manipulating people 

19. In this second zoom interview she also leans back most of the time and speaks in a lower tone than before, which expresses more confidence in herself after the investment news, and feeling like she has essentially 'made it' so she doesn't need to try as hard anymore. She may feel like she is speaking from a position of a little bit of power now, as her voice is genuinely the lowest i've ever heard it.

20. Saying "and, honestly, what really" attracted me was the people- is another lie. Using the word honesty and really, back to back in the starting of a sentence is sort of like, double speech. This is an indication of lying. "I honestly, really, like watermelon." Starting off a sentence with honestly and really, are *classic*, beginning of time indicators of deception. Then, the doubling effect. You have what some analysts call the rule of threes. Meaning three indicators of deception occuring at once. This is the most statistically likely to be a flat out lie. What "really" attracted her was not the people, it was most likely the hundreds of millions of dollars, or something of a more selfish nature. Perhaps even part of a larger plot,  to accomplish god knows what else, grandiose ideas...

21. Again, she just really struggles to maintain any sort of eye contact for one second, it's really strange to watch someone speak like that. It's like she is trying to pretend to seem innocent or like she doesn't know what's going on, and everything is just 'happening to her' like it was luck that she won them over, and not, plotted fraudulent scams... she doesn't want to appear too much like she knows what she is doing, as the innocence act is more 'cute' and believable, and you're more likely to trust someone who seems, innocent, cute, etc. 

22. This is also a really common behavior of narcissists in general, not just deception. They tend to portray a "weaker" image of themselves or less powerful, as a way to have you let your guard down, and bring trust closer- or to just be likable, well liked. 

23. The double blink, backing up a bit, and saying 'um' before she says, 'customers' indicates she was nervous about using that word, 'customer' but couldn't think of a better word to use. Possibly uncomfortable with the phrase because it breaks the illusion that this isn't a ploy fueled by money and greed at all, it sort of contradicts the good girl act she's been giving all along, that this is really. just 'all about the people' and 'helping the people.' Calling the people you're helping customers, it's an incongruency, and she caught herself. But this is likely what she really thinks of them as. Investing firms and businesses typically refer to them as clients, because you're offering them a service. This is just an accidental reveal that she thinks of them as customers, thinking more about all that she can receive from them, rather than all that she has to offer. 

24. When she says, "one or two men" she leans to the side, I don't know why, but changes in weight distribution is an indication of significant discomfort, or she is doing it on purpose to again appear innocent or cute.

25. She mentions women again, really milking that edge as much as possible, which is annoying at this point. 

26. She over all talks about men and women a lot, and genders, which I don't know why, but based on everything I've mentioned here, I'm sensing she has some sort of issue with men going on- possibly an unhealthy or toxic resentment, which would make sense for a narcissistic woman to have, who maybe has experienced repeated put downs and narcissistic injury to her ego or feelings of power, specifically from men. Don't know where this is coming from but, she may have a bit of a chip on her shoulder if it's not all just complete bull shit.

27. At the very end there is the tiniest shrug, usually shoulders raising is another indication of deception or nervousness, especially when it's just to one side. They are unsure of what they are saying, or feel uncomfortable or tensing up when saying it. This is again an incongruency because, she should feel really confident about what she's saying at that moment, or proud, but instead she tenses up. 

last edit on 7/14/2023 5:45:16 PM
Posts: 33548
0 votes RE: True Crime
Blanc said:
Although some may dismiss body language analysis as a psuedoscience all together, I still think it's really interesting to be so well trained in the art of deception you are a walking lie detector.

Ever hear of Paul Ekman's studies? 

They're legit. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 33548
0 votes RE: True Crime
Blanc said:
The problem with body language analysis is, obviously the element of human bias, cognitive distortion and so forth. We create our own optical illusions sometimes, and some people are like magicians, and are very good at this level of manipulation.

This is why in the show Lie to Me that they opted to have a team of them, and illustrated many times how becoming too invested with the case blinds their ability to read people. 

They also would have the footage recorded so they could watch it hundreds of times to look for clues. Show's kinda garbage but it was backed by specialists in the field of microexpressions. It's like having small tidbits of the craft demonstrated within some pretty basic plots. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 9465
0 votes RE: True Crime

Really cool show concept, but yeah. Learning to read body language helps me to understand people a little better... and to see red flags as well when they're maybe not as nice as they let on. 

 

Like for example the book the art of war, once you've understood that, you'll start to see people repeating some of these things in society, and it helps to make that darker area of human behavior more, clear. 

 

 

Posts: 9465
0 votes RE: True Crime

 

Spoiler Alert Ahead 

 

Teenage girl goes missing 

Parents, the next day: *Checking in on the shop she was last seen, talk to the people on staff there*

Parents, telling police: "A woman reported there was a man recruiting girls to work in a brothel, not sketchy at all, totally legal. And everyone said she was telling everyone that day she went missing, she was going to make a lot of money that night at a secret job she couldn't tell anyone about." 

Australian police: "hm, that's weird. So it's probably the boyfriend." 

Posts: 9465
0 votes RE: True Crime

TW Familicide, animal harm, harm to minors, arson, mention of SUI and CSA

 

Props to the expert detective on this case. I love how he was essentially working his own high quality strategies and methods from quite literally the moment he walks into the room, I was impressed with how "ahead" of the game he was and, I wish he had a youtube channel lol or patreon, skillshare class, something where you could learn about some of his techniques and, also just his general knowledge and expertise. He crushed it like it was easy. 

 

Also, I will say, one of the most awkward interrogations I've seen, and I think that's actually a good thing, and was likely on purpose to build that uncomfortable tension just enough- without making the suspect realize it's being done on purpose but rather they think the disease in the room is coming from their own guilt. If you put too much pressure or tension obviously it would play against other dynamics or cause them to snap, becoming angry or combative, or just derailing the interrogation so. It's, this was, masterfully pulled off, high key awkwardness. 

 

This is up there with one of the most awkward I've seen. Most awkward interrogation award goes to Detective Armstrong.

 

(The other ones were just awkward because the suspect was acting incredibly weird, I mean strategic professional tension methods. I've seen some strong moves made before on behalf of this technique like sitting too close etc, but this duration and level of awkward and tesion was right at that sweet spot where it should be. It shouldnt be comfortable to sit in an interrogation room, it shouldnt be casual or easy to get through a conversation with a detective after you just killed your entire family.)

last edit on 9/6/2023 11:35:12 PM
Posts: 9465
0 votes RE: True Crime

Posts: 48
0 votes RE: True Crime

Does body language analysis work on autismos?

Posts: 48
0 votes RE: True Crime

10 / 12 posts
This site contains NSFW material. To view and use this site, you must be 18+ years of age.