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Posts: 32790
0 votes RE: Xena.
Xena said: 

That show had to work so hard to try to get that message across without offending 90s censors. 

 Do you recall if they were the television show (or heck, any other time) to be the first to get there?

The Hemingway chick was first.

I believe it was 1993. Roseanne?

I wouldn't be surprised, that show did a good job breaking boundaries. 

Their miscarriage arc was very daring. 

I think Ellen was also out before Xena and Gabrielle.

We also had people like Rosie O'Donnell, but Roseanne's closer to relevance from it being fiction. 

They did their thing in the late 90s, about the same time as Buffy's (BtVS) sidekicks the witches Tara and whatsername? The cute little redhead. 

Willow, and Tara was Tarable for the series. There was no chemistry between that actor and the cast (as you can see Whedon attempt to adopt into the script to make it seem more natural), you can tell some of what she says feels out of character in an Oz-like way, she accomplishes little more than a prop or framing device. I feel like Whedon couldn't do anything risky or daring with her character over the actress not being built for the challenge. It's almost as if they had to find an autist in order to make Willow appear like a more powerful person, like attractive people being written to have ugly friends. 

The best part about Tara's when she died imo. 

So no. Xena and Gabby were definitely not first.

They may not be the first, but they were one of the more real representations of it. Rather than simply telling the audience they were forced to show it through subtext cues and the occasional snarky line drop about hickies and stuff. The two even bicker like an old married couple by season two, and their 'as a friend' inserts behind every 'I love you' doesn't seem as friendzoned as Herculues and Iolaus. 

It seems more like the chemistry demonstrated in 2 Fast 2 Furious: 



Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 9/22/2021 9:21:46 PM
Posts: 2647
0 votes RE: Xena.

I think they introduced the Tara character to give the girl an excuse to sing.

Season 6 had a musical episode (remember that one? lol) Tara and Giles were the best singers in the cast. Tara had a beautiful voice.

 

Poor Sarah lol. She is a fucking whirlwind of talent, and she did a good percentage of her own stunts. She's a brown belt and a spokesperson for children's literacy, and the list goes on and on.

But she can't sing. I mean she's a cringey bad singer  :(

I still love her, tho  <3

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHQoxthD0qB/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=67dbc1e0-9dab-41f0-85a4-e8c394228d8f

last edit on 9/22/2021 10:20:13 PM
Posts: 2647
0 votes RE: Xena.

Here we are. Roseanne was not the first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Ask,_Don%27t_Tell_(Roseanne)

 

Roseanne was one of the first American television series to feature an intimate kiss between two women. Three years earlier, L.A. Law had aired an episode that included a kiss between bisexual-identified character C.J. Lamb (Amanda Donohoe) and straight-identifying Abby Perkins (Michele Greene). The kiss led to complaints to the network and five sponsors pulled their ads from the episode.[8] In reviewing incidents of lesbian kisses on network television programs, The New York Times noted that they tended to happen during "sweeps" periods, when the networks use Nielsen ratings to determine advertising rates. Noting lesbian kisses during sweeps periods on such shows as L.A. Law, Picket Fences, Party of Five and Ally McBeal in addition to the Roseanne episode and noting that they occur about once per year, the Times concludes that kisses between women are:

"Eminently visual; cheap, provided the actors are willing; controversial, year in and year out; and elegantly reversible (sweeps lesbians typically vanish or go straight when the week's over), kisses between women are perfect sweeps stunts. They offer something for everyone, from advocacy groups looking for role models to indignation-seeking conservatives, from goggle-eyed male viewers to progressive female ones, from tyrants who demand psychological complexity to plot buffs."[9]
Michele Greene confirmed in an interview with AfterEllen.com that her kiss with Amanda Donohoe's C.J. was a ratings ploy and that there was never any intention on the part of producers to seriously explore the possibility of a relationship between two women.[10]

Posts: 4378
0 votes RE: Xena.

How about the first male-male kiss with gay connotation?  Did female-female predate this and, if so, do you think it was because they thought this way would make further gay romance more palatable?

This thread wasn't originally intended for this discussion.  Xena just gets people talking, I guess. 😜

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
Posts: 2647
0 votes RE: Xena.

Not sure why, but gay men were getting attention in movies and pop culture decades before lesbians were.

My best guess (or projection lol) would be that it happened that way bc buttsecks is way more icky than cunnilingus. Gay men are a few more shades of freakishly hypersexual, as far as the rest of us are concerned.

Many of them are also cute and helpful, so they make good 'damsel in distress' characters. Loads of backstory there. They also make good thought experiments in stories that explore what it means to give consent, and where victimization ends and free choice begins.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdmPoTTbigw

 

The trailer hasn't aged well, but I thoroughly enjoyed this movie when I watched it.

I had such a crush on Matthew Broderick back in the day. At least until I realized that he's short lol

 

And who could forget?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNGjabZFewo

 

I'm pretty sure I could find gay men making out in mainstream movies as early as the 1950s if I look hard enough.

 

 

Posts: 3134
0 votes RE: Xena.

Xena knows Hercules and Aries, but she went for the sidekick.

Posts: 32790
0 votes RE: Xena.

Xena knows Hercules and Aries, but she went for the sidekick.

Lol have you even seen Hercules? No brainer that she'd go for the bard instead. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 3134
0 votes RE: Xena.

Xena knows Hercules and Aries, but she went for the sidekick.

Lol have you even seen Hercules? No brainer that she'd go for the bard instead. 

 He did hit it tho. Proof that the warrior princess is bisexual.

 

8 / 18 posts
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