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WhatsApp end-to-end encryption doesn't do shit (if it exists)


Posts: 51

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Some context from an article in 2018:

https://medium.com/@gzanon/no-end-to-end-encryption-does-not-prevent-facebook-from-accessing-whatsapp-chats-d7c6508731b2 said:
In August 2016, WhatsApp announced in a blog post that it would begin sharing limited amounts of data with its parent company Facebook. At the time, end-to-end encryption was put forward as a strong privacy safeguard:

“We’re also updating these documents to make clear that we’ve rolled out end-to-end encryption. When you and the people you message are using the latest version of WhatsApp, your messages are encrypted by default, which means you’re the only people who can read them. Even as we coordinate more with Facebook in the months ahead, your encrypted messages stay private and no one else can read them. Not WhatsApp, not Facebook, nor anyone else.”

The language is clear: there’s nothing to fear! End-to-end encryption prevents Facebook from snooping on your chats. And that’s exactly how media outlets understood it at the time. WhatsApp’s Legal page was updated simultaneously, and features very similar language:

“Your messages are yours, and we can’t read them. We’ve built privacy, end-to-end encryption, and other security features into WhatsApp. We don’t store your messages once they’ve been delivered. When they are end-to-end encrypted, we and third parties can’t read them.”

 From Zuckerberg's congressional hearing years back: 

https://medium.com/@gzanon/no-end-to-end-encryption-does-not-prevent-facebook-from-accessing-whatsapp-chats-d7c6508731b2 said:
SCHATZ: Let me — let me try a couple of specific examples. If I’m email — if I’m mailing — emailing within WhatsApp, does that ever inform your advertisers?

ZUCKERBERG: No, we don’t see any of the content in WhatsApp, it’s fully encrypted.

Later, responding to Young:

ZUCKERBERG: (…) That’s how WhatsApp works too, so that’s an app. It’s a very lightweight app. It doesn’t require us to know a lot of information about you, so we can offer that with full encryption, and therefore, we’re not looking — we don’t see the content.

Emphasis on therefore mine to underscore how causality is strongly implied between encryption and the impossibility for Facebook to access your chats.
But it’s just not true. Facebook could potentially access your WhatsApp chats. In fact, it could easily access your entire chat history and every single attachment. I’m not saying it does, and I have no evidence suggesting that it ever has. But as Android users have recently been finding out that their call history and SMS data had been collected by Facebook, I believe it is important to examine the means by which Facebook is already in a position to collect our WhatsApp data, from any iPhone running iOS 8 and above.

Probably no one here is really surprised that this would be happening. What got my attention is the flat out lying in this situation. It's not like instances of data collection where your information is collected and sold, but the users aren't made aware of it. It's a denial that privacy is a problem, with a claim that you have total privacy.

Can companies like Google, Amazon, Apple, Facebook even be held accountable at this point?

Posts: 4383
0 votes RE: WhatsApp end-to-end encryption doesn't do shit (if it exists)

They seek to wear resistance down through sporadic outrages, banking on people's feelings of overwhelmedness and disempowerment to keep them paralyzed long enough to go past the threshold of effective action.

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
Posts: 51
0 votes RE: WhatsApp end-to-end encryption doesn't do shit (if it exists)

I considered not making the post because it does seem like one of those stories that most people would be like, "yeah, of course they are doing that," without really processing anything from it. Because of how people have been conditioned as you've mentioned. Not that it's exactly paradigm-shifting information either. A red flag of things to come, I think.

Posts: 4383
0 votes RE: WhatsApp end-to-end encryption doesn't do shit (if it exists)

At least one gets the luxury of saying "I told you so."

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
Posts: 51
0 votes RE: WhatsApp end-to-end encryption doesn't do shit (if it exists)

I'll put that on my tombstone.

Posts: 3965
0 votes RE: WhatsApp end-to-end encryption doesn't do shit (if it exists)

I considered not making the post because it does seem like one of those stories that most people would be like, "yeah, of course they are doing that," without really processing anything from it. Because of how people have been conditioned as you've mentioned. Not that it's exactly paradigm-shifting information either. A red flag of things to come, I think.

 what the fuck r u planning, all these posts about how cyber terrorists are getting snitched on by their VPNs and shit..do i need to contact the FBI?

Posts: 463
0 votes RE: WhatsApp end-to-end encryption doesn't do shit (if it exists)

 

There are a few groups that monitor and verify this sort of thing (EFF is probably my favorite). 

The thing about Whatsapp is that it's closed source, but the encryption protocol they use is fully open source (the Signal protocol). So while the Signal protocol is kosher, it's borderline impossible to 100% prove that they've fully implemented it.

That said, I don't actually think there's any reason to disbelieve they're end-to-end encrypting. It's more that the inbuilt loopholes and unencrypted metadata is an issue.

In any case, there are far better options for secure coms. Plus I just don't like Zuckerberg. 

 

Posts: 5402
0 votes RE: WhatsApp end-to-end encryption doesn't do shit (if it exists)

I only use Whatsapp for work and personal.

I't's so popular that you cannot escape it in a work sense, it's what people tend to use. Once a friend asked me to download some fringe app nobody except him and his art pals use and it just faded from my consciousness. Like an idiot i'll gravitate towards the path of least resistance and adopt the mainstream messaging app

Posts: 1325
0 votes RE: WhatsApp end-to-end encryption doesn't do shit (if it exists)
Xadem said: 

I only use Whatsapp for work and personal.

I't's so popular that you cannot escape it in a work sense, it's what people tend to use. Once a friend asked me to download some fringe app nobody except him and his art pals use and it just faded from my consciousness. Like an idiot i'll gravitate towards the path of least resistance and adopt the mainstream messaging app

 For work and personal? What is Left then? 

Posts: 5402
0 votes RE: WhatsApp end-to-end encryption doesn't do shit (if it exists)
Xadem said: 

I only use Whatsapp for work and personal.

I't's so popular that you cannot escape it in a work sense, it's what people tend to use. Once a friend asked me to download some fringe app nobody except him and his art pals use and it just faded from my consciousness. Like an idiot i'll gravitate towards the path of least resistance and adopt the mainstream messaging app

 For work and personal? What is Left then? 

play 

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